User talk:Tjtrumpet2323

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  • en: I'm no longer so active on this site as I used to be, but if you leave a message, I'll get an email and I will respond! (Maybe someday I'll return...)
  • fr: Je ne suis plus actif sur ce site que j’étais, mais si vous laissez un message, je reçois un mail et je répondrai ! (Peut-être qu’un jour je reviendrai ...)


  • en: Please, sign all of your posts here with your signature by typing "~~~~" after each post.
  • fr: S’il vous plaît, signez tous vos postes ici avec votre signature en tapant « ~~~~ » après chaque poste.

v · e

  • en: I will be taking a wikibreak to tour China with the University of Pittsburgh's Heinz Chapel Choir from 26 April 2009, 22:00 UTC to 13 May 2009, 16:00 UTC. During that time, I will be unable to reply to your questions and comments.
  • fr: Je prendrai un wikibreak pour visiter la Chine avec le Chœur de la Chapelle Heinz d'Université de Pittsburgh du 26 avril 2009 à 22h UTC jusqu'au 13 mai 2009 à 16h UTC. Pendant ce temps, je ne pourrai pas répondre à vos questions et commentaires.

Re:St. Louis[edit]

No big, thanks for letting me know. MToolen 19:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

NO PROBLEM. --Tim P 03:11, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot for writing current coordinates[edit]

I saw that you are responsable for automatically updating the front page. I assume this means that you have a bot which calculates the coordinates and inserts them onto the front page. Would it be possible to have your bot also create a template that contains just the coordinates for a given day? For examply, it could create Template:Coords06-13-2008 that would take Lat and Long as input. That way, for setting up pages about a specific graticule on a specific day, we could just put in a string that is something like {{Coords2008-06-13|Lat=42|Long=71}} instead of having to copy and paste from the reference implementation. If you wanted to get fancy, you could even have the bot update a master template that uses if statements to lookup a certain day's coordinates, so that we would just have to call {{Coordinates|Date=2008-06-13|Lat=42|Long=71}}.--Ahecht 15:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I actually edit and create the pages manually (for the time being, it forces me to be up at 09:15). I am planning on eventually programming templates to automate almost all of the calculational stuff you mentioned; however it is all reliant on installation of the MediaWiki Implementation on this wiki, as stuff like md5() isn't a default wiki function. Please, feel free to bounce ideas off of me... but know that until the MWI is installed, not much can happen. --Tim P 15:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
DONE! This can now be accomplished with {{coordinates graticule|2008-06-13|lat=42|lon=-71}}. --Tim P 02:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Coordinates Template Automation[edit]

I see that there are newer implementations of the coordinates on the main page. I'd just like to use a similar table on the expedition pages. (Something simple like this: {| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center; vertical-align: top; border: 3px solid black; border-collapse: collapse; margin: 1em" border="1" cellpadding="2" width="300" !width=50%| Date !width=50%| Coordinates |- ! {{date link|2008-06-29|D j M Y}} | {{coordinates|2008-07-02|30w=1}} |} Is there a way to put the integer parts of my graticule in front of the fractional parts? Thanks: --Tom 08:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

There will be eventually! In fact, that's probably next on my list of things to do with this exciting new functionality! --Tim P 15:33, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
DONE! Template:Coordinates graticule now offers this functionality! --Tim P 02:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Hey tjtrumpet, awesome work on all the template magic. Might be worth writing up a little primer somewhere for what template magic exists and roughly how they're intended to be used. Hate to see them all get barely any use... --Nemo 09:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Hey, so nice. We're all thankful. --Tom 14:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

template magic question[edit]

Tim: I've got a little bit of magic on the top of the Canberra, Australia which gives auto-links each day to upcoming points. (checks up to four days ahead and if DJIA is available, gives a link). THis was working fine when I got it up just before the DJIA long weekend, but now gives one extra day worth of coords - which are wrong due to the lack of DJIA data to feed the md5. This has only begun tonight though... I've not checked the changelogs of all the nested templates it's using, so might be something there. Otherwise, any ideas? (aside: it was this link box which got me generalising Template:Announce before realising that, as it stands, it's still unusable for that box. (though may be in the future yet) --Nemo 15:16, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Anything returning .8843126, .7729682 is wrong. There is an error in the calculational templates because I was working on making them better and the wiki kept timing me out yesterday. Hopefully all will be better by 05:00 UTC, 9 July? Much sooner, I hope.... If your template is still having trouble once I'm sure everything on my end is proper, I'll take a look. --Tim P 16:43, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't think those were the numbers I was getting yesterday, and as of right now, it is good (but the frontpage is broken) --Nemo 22:16, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, I do know that the broken front page does calculate 30W incorrectly. I'm now working on figuring out just why it's doing so. --Tim P 22:18, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
I figured you knew it was broken... my observation was more along the lines of 'mine isn't, if that helps in debugging' :) --Nemo 22:53, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
RESOLVED. Thanks, Nemo. I'm pretty sure the "extra day" had something to do with something on my end... I noticed the incorrect 30W calculation applied something or other to the day after it should have. As an aside, great job on the templating! I'll be stealing some of your code for Main Page on Wednesday (EDT), seeing how you stole some of my userbox code. :) --Tim P 03:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Yay for fixed. Happy to hear my usage is usefull too - I wasn't sure if it was best/intended use of the temnplates or not, but it was working so I was happy. My long term goal is to [a] update the Announce template to support alignment, then put that link box inside an Announce, and finally make the whole thing a template of it's own for wider graticule use. Left to my own devices though, this wont happen till after I get back from europe (see my user: page for timeframes). :) --Nemo 12:55, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing ASG. Main page?[edit]

The main page "Recent and Upcoming Coordinates" seem horribly horribly broken. ALL of them read .8843126, .7729682, and have all day. --an old geohasher (aka Thomcat 20:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC))

I'm currently working hard on it... it's one of those things I have no idea where it came from. I hope to have things working (if not perfectly) in the coming hours. --Tim P 20:14, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

As of 21:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC), it's not showing the same coords for every date, but some are still wrong (4-6 July and 7 July 30W all show .4130070, .7311430). Part of the problem involved me leaving a test variable in place, even after dispatching the templates. --Tim P 21:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

HUZZAH! I have fixed it at last! See Main Page. --Tim P 02:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

"Day of" Categories[edit]

I see you're away, so I'll wait patiently. I've been creating and categorizing uncategorized categories, and have run up against your parallel system of daily archives. The main system follows the hierarchy Root categories -> Meetup -> Meetup by date -> Meetup in 2008 -> Meetup in 2008-07 -> Meetup on 2008-07-01 -> 2008-07-01 38 -78

Your parallel system has  ? -> Category:Day of July 2008 -> 2008-07-01 plus the completely unused categories Category:Month_of_2008 -> Category:Day of 2008. I know this has something to do with the main page template magic, and is probably necessary, but if you could explain how it works and if there are any bits you don't need after all, I would appreciate the opportunity to finish the hierarchy.

I just realized a) how your hierarchy works -- found June and made July and August match up -- and b) that the last two categories I whined about were not created by you, but by User:Gissehel so I've gone off to hassle him instead. I'm still interested in the how/why of your hierarchy, but as it's complete and logical it doesn't bother me anymore. Welcome home. -Robyn 15:08, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
NO PROBLEM. Feel free to vent here in the future, even if it's not about my pages. --Tim P 13:26, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Is there any way to make the Add Yours link a little more friendly on the Main Page? When the gallery hasn't started yet for a day, a user is faced with a blank page. I suppose the typical geohasher is smart enough to copy from the previous day, but it would be nice if it came up with a template. -Robyn 15:10, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I do not know of any way to prepopulate the edit field with a template in MediaWiki. Even if it is possible (and it might still be), that's a change that only a sysop can make (i.e., xkcd or perhaps Zigdon). Not having a consistent template to work from has been a frustration for me as well, but what can you do? --Tim P 00:27, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Welcome back! Maybe an easy link to a fill in the blanks template would help. I don't know if it's seriously a problem, but I'd like to see more people showing off their pictures, and if any are deterred by the code, that is sad. -Robyn 00:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! This is definitely something I can do, probably late tonight (EDT). --Tim P 13:26, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
DONE. Now, when the Recent Images template calls a day's gallery that doesn't yet exist, the prompt will say something like "Start the gallery for Wednesday 20 August. (how?)" The how-to page at Template:Expedition Images/How-to should be satisfactory for this purpose if links are carefully placed. I've already added one to Main Page. --Tim P 15:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Suppress Auto-Creation of Categories by Graticule Template?[edit]

The graticule template well and wisely automatically categorizes a page it is on as Meetup in LAT LONG and Meetup on YYYY-MM-DD. Nost of the time that is what should happen. But sometimes someone does a Category:Retro meetup, e.g. an origin geohash, where the date of the Dow for which the coordinates were generated does not correspond to the date of the expedition. Now it's obvious, but what if next year someone decides to do an origin hash with their one-year old? And I just don't like having something that was not a meetup on DATE to be classed there. Could there be a no date category = true parameter for the template? -Robyn 02:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

DONE. Template:Meetup graticule now takes an optional retro=1 parameter, which adds to Category:Retro meetup. (I'd originally called the category something else before seeing your own version.) It is a legitimate concern, so I updated wording on the template documentation as well as updated all (three) of the relevant retro meetup pages. --Tim P 02:53, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Awesome. I noticed the deleted origin meetup categories and realized you were a wikian of action. :-) -Robyn 09:59, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, sometimes it just takes me a while to figure out my vision, or to have the free time to implement it (now that school's started). But I guess I'm one of the more experienced wikians here when it comes to templating, so I must do my part. --Tim P 12:00, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


Hey Tim, I noticed you were adding date parameters to all the day pages. It seems to have broken the coords on the 2009-02 page. Do you know what broke it? I reverted one (2009-02-10) but it didn't seem to help. --joannac 07:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Joanna, I don't know why this would have broken the coords on 2009-02, as this was intended to be a fix for previous months. I just went to bed before I could start January (plus the server kept timing out, or throttling my rapid-fire edits). As far as I am aware, the coordinates on all of the month pages were already broken; this was simply an attempt to fix it. I'll look into it later tonight (EST) if possible. --Tim P 14:27, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
Neither 2009-02 or 2009-01 is correct (and possibly, the other months?), but for 2 different reasons. 2009-02 is showing the same coords for every day in feb (2009-02-01 coords, actually). I was told this has been happening for a while, so definitely not to do with your changes - sorry). 2009-01 is just weird - showing 2 sets of coords for the weekend, when there should be only one. All the days I've checked so far seem to be ok though (2009-01-01, 2009-01-02, etc). Which is odd because the months just include the data from the days, right?
Anyway, I'm sorry for blaming you - last time someone was playing with something and broke the month page, and it was annoying to pinpoint. But given you wrote a whole heap of the templates, I guess I should trust you know what you're doing ;) Let me know how the fixing goes, and if I can help. --joannac 21:21, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
No offense taken. What's actually happening is that the main transcluded template that generates the coordinates (Template:Auto coordinates) used to be referencing {{PAGENAME}} for the calculation of its date parameter. On date pages such as 2009-02-21, this is fine, and works as intended. However, on month pages such as 2009-01 (and all the others for that matter), it goes a bit haywire. It reads the page name as a timestamp, and noticing that it lacks a "day of month," steals it from the current time. Never mind that the transcluded template is itself transcluded from a separate page, it uses the pagename it is ultimately rendered on. So today, since it's 21 February (UTC), all of the coordinates on 2009-01 are those for 2009-01-21.
In my attempt to fix this (with February as a test case), I managed to get the month page to default to the first of the month, i.e., all coordinates on 2009-02 actually refer to the coordinates for 2009-02-01, which was a Sunday, and thus yields one set of coordinates. Again, I'm not quite sure why, as I thought passing a parameter and purging the cache would help. I guess not. I'll look into it later tonight (EST) if possible. --Tim P 21:34, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Template:Dow date to use/considerHolidays[edit]

Can I delete it? Don't want to ruin all your hard work. --joannac 00:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

FINE BY ME. As the history states, all the logic was farmed out to Template:Dow holiday on 7 July 2008. That's where the "hard work" is. Happy just barely belated Geohashing Day! --Tim P 04:01, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Holy crap, that was fast. --Tim P 04:03, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
The new template algorithmically determines the holidays, whereas this one was a temporary solution that used a static list of 2008 and 2009 holidays. --Tim P 04:03, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Oops, messed up gallery for tomorrow.[edit]

Yeah, I blew away the create the gallery page for tomorrow. I created tomorrow's page meaning to create today's and I ruined the whole thing. I feel horrible.

Boneheaded move on my part, that or I can't read dates. Sorry. Scerruti 22:52, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Not a big deal. I just included a blank gallery for 2010-04-23. In the meantime, the traditional "start this gallery" prompts will be gone since the gallery is already "started." I lack the administrative power to delete the faulty gallery outright, but I have a feeling there might be new pictures added to Template:Expedition Images/2010-04-23 soon enough as it is. If no pictures end up being added, it might be appropriate to add {{delete}} to Template:Expedition Images/2010-04-23. --Tim P 20:50, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

usage of var:latdate on Template:Coordinates/Regular/latOnly?[edit]

Hey Tjtrumpet2323 -

do you remember why you defined var:latdate et al. as {{#if:{{#var:latdate}}||{{#vardefine:latdate|{{#time:Y-m-d|{{{1}}} }} }} instead of just setting the variable? Currently it breaks the coordinate display on pages that want to show more than one set of coordinates (particularly the month pages), because the first usage of the template sets the variable, and any subsequent usage of the template just works with this value. -- relet 16:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, thanks for finding that; I'm pretty sure that's what's been the thorn in our side this whole time on the month pages. I'm not sure exactly the rationale anymore, since I wrote that over two years ago, but surely there's got to be some better way. The original idea, in general, was if someone used {{Coordinates/Regular/latOnly|2010-07-25}}, they could get the latitude value for an arbitrary date as specified (in this case, .5182129). Since this template (as well as its lonOnly counterpart) are sort of at the core of the MediaWiki hashing algorithm, I could have sworn I tested multiple instances of these templates on a single page at some point and would have been tipped off if everything appeared the same. That said, I'm pretty sure that it wasn't until well after these templates were created that the month pages started becoming a feature.
In any case, I'll look into it. I've got an idea or two. --Tim P 21:13, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I was wondering if there has been a solution or a workaround for this. I was trying to make a list of coordinates, and after having the same problems mentioned above, found this discussion and see that others are aware and have discussed it. I would be happy with a workaround if there is one. Thanks! --Dvdllr 20:07, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Is the "Coordinates" Template Working Correctly?[edit]

Tim -- Is the "Coordinates" template working correctly? It appears to be figuring things as if today (Monday, March 10, 2014) is a Dow holiday (though it is not), giving one set of coordinates for both E30 and W30 graticules. Thanks! Bravissimo594 (talk) 14:13, 10 March 2014 (EDT)

Hmmm... it's been a long while since I wrote all this stuff. Looking at date pages such as 2014-02-28, it seems that all dates (at least recently) have been suffering from similar problems. Moreover, I note that the coordinates provided by Template:Auto coordinates for 2014-03-10 (.9726505, .9171086) do not match either of the correct offsets of .3503995, .3664914 (west) or .6386867, .1330474 (east). I can confirm, however, that it's nothing to do with Template:Dow holiday. {{Dow holiday|2014-03-10}} returns 0, as it should. Which means the problem is deeper in the chain somewhere. Who knows how long it's been that way? --Tim P (talk) 14:50, 10 March 2014 (EDT)
I have been watching the site for the past few months, and today is the first Monday on which I noticed it to be giving problems. ...but I could have been oblivious to earlier incidences. (On a likely unrelated note, the Peeron server has been inaccessible all day today from my location. Oh... the travails of a geohasher.) Bravissimo594 (talk) 15:59, 10 March 2014 (EDT)
Actually, upon further investigation, it seems that the downtime of is the issue here. The MediaWiki Implementation (MWI) has a #dow method that fetches the Dow value from Absent that, {{#dow:2014|03|10}} returns a null string. Hashing "2014-03-10-" gives f8ff9f054668b770eac7a180109d05f4, which corresponds directly to .9726505 and .9171086. Since both sides of 30W are using this null-based value, Template:Coordinates date recognizes that the resulting coordinates are the same and coalesces them into a single "All locations" value as you've been seeing.
So, potential solutions are as follows:
  1. Wait for to come back online.
  2. Get a wiki admin to edit the MWI to fetch Dow data from a different source.
I guess the proper approach depends on whether the downtime is to be short-lived or more permanent. For what it's worth, I've mentioned this thread in IRC and have tweeted @zigdon, who managed the peeron service. --Tim P (talk) 18:45, 10 March 2014 (EDT)
Thanks for tracing that through and following up with parties who might be able to fix it. I agree with you that any choice of solution depends on the duration of the peeron outage. Bravissimo594 (talk) 19:00, 10 March 2014 (EDT)

Update: For those watching this issue, zigdon has made contact (he was on a trip). It will still be a while before he can check, presumably this evening (PDT) at the earliest. --Tim P (talk) 16:45, 12 March 2014 (EDT)

FIXED. came back online within the last hour or so, and the coordinates computed by Template:Coordinates date seem to be correct once again, at least for the dates I checked, 2014-03-10 through 2014-03-13 (east). Relatedly, the maps and other services relying on are also back. --Tim P (talk) 21:25, 12 March 2014 (EDT)
Thanks for being the conduit between geohashers and server admins! Bravissimo594 (talk) 15:57, 13 March 2014 (EDT)

See also May/June 2018 issues

Language support for summary templates[edit]

Hi Tim, is it possible to make the templates "Next Saturday", "Coordinates list" and" "Expedition archive recent" wich are used in multilingual? I could give you the German text.

--Q-Owl (talk) 07:49, 29 June 2014 (EDT)

It would almost definitely be possible; however, my main concern would be with the dates these templates refer to, which are generated using the {{#time:}} parser function. Our current MediaWiki Implementation is, per Special:Version, running version 1.1.1 of the ParserFunctions extension, which is quite old. (Honestly, there's never been need to upgrade it since 2008.) Language support was added to {{#time:}} in 2011; the current version is 1.6.0 (2014-03-28). So we would need to start by having a wiki admin upgrade that extension. Then I could begin thinking about which of the many possible ways to provide language support for these templates would be best. Only after I've got some infrastructure in place would providing any strings be helpful.
I'll try to ping some people on IRC and see if we can't get the ball rolling on this... --Tim P (talk) 23:06, 30 June 2014 (EDT)
Status update: As of 06:26, 1 July 2014 (EDT), the ParserFunctions extension for MediaWiki has been upgraded to version 1.5.1 (2013-01-06) by User:Joannac and the language support for {{#time:}} is working in User:Tjtrumpet2323/sandbox/3. Next, I'll be consulting with Joanna on how best to proceed, considering the needs of the wiki. The intricate templates are undoubtedly a bit of a strain on the wiki and internationalizing that with more template syntax would likely only exacerbate the problem. The best solution for this may be a wholesale rewrite of my intricate templates as a MediaWiki extension. I'd be willing to do that, but it may take some time. --Tim P (talk) 02:51, 2 July 2014 (EDT)

Coordinate discrepancies, 2018[edit]

Hello. Thank you for all that you have done for the geohashing community. I'm very concerned about the discrepancy between the wiki site and the site which has been going on since May 19, 2018. People are saying that the site is correct, but the mistake has continued for a month. Can you please help? Yosef (talk) 12:55, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

It does indeed look like this wiki is wrong for dates from 2018-05-18 onwards, and the symptoms are strikingly similar to the last time wasn't feeding market data to implementations in 2014. I don't have time to actively check the math right now, but since the "official" map — which is hosted on and uses its data — hasn't received market data since 2018-05-17, I'm inclined to say this is it. Scrollback on IRC indicates that zbot started acting up around the same time (and earned a ban for it, which breaks my heart). I've contacted @zigdon on Twitter again to see if they can address this on their end. --Tim P (talk) 15:10, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
Status: Known issue. First reported here on 2018-05-21. Zigdon is aware, but is in need of a new primary data source. --Tim P (talk) 16:17, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Update: FIXED. As of ~17:05 UTC on 27 June 2018, the service is fixed. Per IRC, it is now pulling data from --Tim P (talk) 22:41, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

For me, even brand new expedition pages aren't getting a map filled in --Jiml (talk) 04:36, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
The above discussion was related to incorrect/complete calculations of hashpoints on the wiki; the lack of maps is an entirely separate issue which was not raised here. It seems that Template:Meetup graticule, which you have used recently in the creation of pages such as 2018-07-10 45 -122, was referencing Template:Map, which has been deprecated since 2010-07-20, nearly eight years ago. I've updated that template according to current practices and those maps should now be working once again. I don't know whether there are other templates in use by the current community which might need similar attention, but if so, this should point in the right direction. --Tim P (talk) 01:00, 18 July 2018 (UTC)