Talk:Endurance Geohashing

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A proposal to alter the rules[edit]

Michael5000 attempted 14 points with 10 reached, away from home for 7 days, starting on 2011-09-14 45 -122.

At the time of writing, he was the only user to gain the endurance achievement but the ribbon does not credit him with the 14 expeditions - he was robbed. And what if he did it in six days. There would be no ribbon.

  • Alter the wording to include the number of expeditions, the successes and the days taken. The example above covers it.
  • Drop the seven day rule. Make it "more than one day away from home". A single day is covered by the multihash achievement.
  • Perhaps exclude single hashpoint consecutive expeditions. That is covered by the consecutive achievement.
  • Perhaps require both consecutive expedition attempts and one or more multihash attempts.
  • Perhaps exclude fixed vacation accommodation - you'd need to be nomadic. No sleep, rough sleeping or 5* hotels are all fine.

Another alternative would be to upgrade the Consecutive geohash achievement to cover the scenarios described here.

Or we could have a whole new achievement - the Polyhash achievement if we want to keep the existing ones unchanged.

What does the community think? --Sourcerer (talk) 12:02, 24 November 2015 (EST)-

  • include number of expeditions - yes
  • drop the seven day rule - no, two days are not enough. It's called "endurance" because it is achieved over a long time.
  • exclude single hashpoint consecutive expeditions - why? The consecutive achievement is for going geohashing each day for a while, the endurance achievement is for going geohashing for one week without returning home.
  • multihash - not needed in my opinion. When you are hiking through the wilderness, just with your camping gear and a GPS unit, a single attempt per day is enough.
  • fixed vacation accomodation - I don't understand what you mean. I'm fine with the current rules.
  • for example a holiday hotel with seven consecutive expeditions returning to the same hotel each night. This ribbon ought to include a nomadic element. --Sourcerer (talk) 06:21, 30 November 2015 (EST)
The special thing of this achievement is that you don't return home between all those expeditions and that you sleep somewhere near the hashpoint. This achievement is one of the "not many people will achieve this" achievement, it is not meant to be easy. I'm opposed to change the rules. Nevertheless, changing the ribbon to include the total number of expeditions and maybe something about not returning home is a good idea. - Danatar (talk) 13:09, 25 November 2015 (EST)
  • Allow seven or more days and include the number of days in the ribbon. --Sourcerer (talk) 17:19, 26 November 2015 (EST)
  • I think, the endurance is pretty well defined as hashing for 7 days and live near the hash (probably camping at least some of the seven days). I don't think it is in the challenging spirit of the achievement to get an improvement by doing it for eight or nine days. If you want to include a number in the ribbon I'd prefer the number of seven day periods you hash in a row (of course stay over night near the hash).
  • On the other hand I see the point of Sourcerer: It seems to me that there are still some achievements missing like multi hashing for several consecutive days and like staying away from home and live nomadic. I guess, I'll propose a hashholiday achievement for the latter and support his Polyhash achievement. DODO (talk) 12:50, 27 November 2015 (EST)
I'm not sure how taking an achievement which asks you to do something for seven days and instead doing it for eight or nine days "isn't in the challenging spirit of the achievement". Surely that's harder, and therefore very much in the challenging spirit of the achievement? On your second point, I don't think there needs to be a ribbon for absolutely every combination of ways you can reach hashpoints. If you get a ribbon for everything you do, I feel it makes getting a ribbon a little more worthless. — Benjw  {talk} 15:06, 29 November 2015 (EST)
Perhaps we should allow seven or more days and an "Honourable Mention" for three to six nomadic days, not returning home. Expeditions spanning midnight and two days are so common that they should not be included in this ribbon. The honourable mention is consistent with many of our other ribbons. --Sourcerer (talk) 06:21, 30 November 2015 (EST)
I think seven or more days is entirely within the intended spirit of the achievement, and the fact that it wasn't originally worded like that is probably due to an oversight rather than any particular intention. I wouldn't object to your "honourable mention" suggestion. I agree that two days is too few. — Benjw  {talk} 10:01, 30 November 2015 (EST)
Indeed the template is written to allow any day count with a default of seven but the documentation did not match. I have fixed that. No one seems to be objecting to the inclusion of the expedition count and coordinates-reached awesomeness metrics. If there are no objections to these small additions, I'm happy to make the change and fix the one and only award claimed. --Sourcerer (talk) 07:26, 19 December 2015 (EST)

Original discussions[edit]

I would love to do this, but I'd have to move to a different graticule, where I wouldn't need the underwater camping skill. --Robyn

Could clarify "All destinations". I'm assuming what is meant is that you have to visit all 7 locations in your graticule for that week. --

Sounds like fun, now what exactly is it...[edit]

Do we know who created this achievement? I'm already considering making it my summer holiday, but I would like to develop the achievement a bit more. Juventas 23:25, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I think that the description still stems from the time when visits in neighbour graticules weren't imaginable. I would suggest it to read "reach one geohash every day", instead of "all destinations". That would allow to travel a bit more (or less) while doing this. -- relet 23:40, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Contrary to the rumour, I did not personally invent this achievement. I think I made the ribbon image and there's a good chance that I created this particular page but it would have only been to transcribe and flesh out the achievement, from the old days when all the achievements were listed on one page. It was almost certainly intended by its creator as a joke, but no, Juventas, you're definitely not the first to consider making a vacation out of it. I've been mulling for a while over the best graticule to try it in. I agree with Relet that it should be acceptable to reach one geohash per day, not restricted to a single graticule. I would, however, feel that the spirit of the achievement had been somewhat slighted if the person drove several hundred miles each day just to get to the easiest geohash, instead of slogging through woods and swamps and up mountains. But it would still be a glorious vacation. Pick a [starting] graticule and a date and we'll give it a go. -Robyn 03:54, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, here's how I see it: You are not restricted to a single graticule, and you have to launch at least one expedition per day. Coordinates do not have to be reached. This makes the achievement less about strict guidelines and more about camping and dedicating the time. If you really spend a week geohashing without going home and give a full effort, (and have seven entertaining writeups), this achievement is yours. I am very strongly considering doing this option for my spring break. I would start on Sunday, March 1st and finish on the 7th. I will keep you guys updated... --Woodveil 04:39, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
My opinion - An attempt must be made to reach the coordinates. If you fail by mother nature or private property, camp nearby. Thus the spirit of the achievement is maintained. I think we need to get that geohash SMS up and running, though - otherwise you have to return to a nearby internet access 4 days out of 7. --Thomcat 06:11, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
I've already agreed below, but now I'll play devil's advocate. Can I do the endurance geohash in a graticule that has only the tiniest tip on the shore, and just camp on that beach for a week? Can I do it by driving to the closest approach to each one by road and saying that it was too hard to go through the bush? Probably yes, we just accept that there will be different levels of awesomeness in doing this achievement, as there are in all geohashes. I was thinking of doing an endurancce geohash in ... nah, I won't give it away. -Robyn 06:34, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

That improves the achievement, and discourages trespassing when day six comes up and it's in a frigging military encampment. We should edit the achievement page to make it clearer what camping is required. Are we allowing wussy camping with an RV? Are we allowing motor vehicles at all for this achievement? Can you check into a motel if the geohash is in an urban area where camping is prohibited? -Robyn 05:16, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

This achievement is both exciting and difficult to define. We seem to agree with the spirit of it however. Something to keep in mind, the participant will have the whole day between hashes. I bring this up for two reasons. Strict rules would have to be created for where you are allowed to go and what you can do. And on the positive side, if the coordinates are indeed blocked by nature or property, you have lots of time to scout around.
We could define the "camp out" area as a radius x kms from the coordinates, and if blocked, x kms from the closest reachable point. If there is a place to stay (hotel, b&b, a barn, etc) within the radius, you could stay there. It wouldn't always be glorious--in urban areas without an accommodation, you would be required to do exactly what the homeless are forced to do.
What kind of proof of closest reachable point should be supplied? -Robyn 02:56, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
If it's a weekend, you should be able to camp either at the geohash, or at some reasonable place en route to the next day's geohash. -Robyn 02:56, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
So, back to the time in between. No going home and such. What about food? Vehicles or bikes would no doubt be needed. Stay out of all buildings (besides your accommodation)? RVs... I suppose, but they won't help when there's no road within your radius. Lastly, perhaps we could consider a different value of days? Say 3 or 5, but only as a minimum required for any claim of the achievement. Juventas 08:40, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
I'd vote for an endurance consolation prize "wimped out after only X days geohashing without returning home".
If you're geohashing in a graticule that contains neither roads nor a source of food, then (a) you are seriously hardcore and (b) you have committed to bringing a week's worth of food. You can however cache some of it at a centrally accessible location. -Robyn 04:56, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
What do you mean by source of food? If you have to stay out of buildings, that technically leaves you with drive-thru windows and cart vendors? It wasn't what I had in mind. I also don't want to leave out the cyclists who couldn't pack 7 days of food on them. *sigh* Juventas 09:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I would scrap the "stay out of buildings" part. For example, what if you need to restock on food somewhere, or need to buy a new jacket after your first one is damaged in a raptor attack? Or what if the campground has a visitors center with information and a neat little nature exhibit? Certainly you should be allowed to go inside. I don't think the achievement needs to specify what you do between hashes, only that you may *not* go home. --Woodveil 14:44, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Some sort of restriction on where you can stay would be in order, like limiting it to a certain distance from the hash for that day (or the following day, where it is known in advance, like at weekends or places east of the 30W line). Else you could claim the award simply by staying at a friend's house all week. The Camping Geohash award specifies 1km; this one needn't be quite so restrictive. How about 10km? That gives you about 3% of the graticule to choose from when finding accommodation. -- Benjw 20:28, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I have to claim the invention of this achievement to myself. I conjured it up about the time I had done my first Geohashing trip back when this was all new to me. I never thought this page would survive long enough to be taken seriously, so I never got to re-defining the "rules" of this achievement. You guys seem to have done something about it, though. My original idea was pretty much the same as Thomcat it already put it - you have to at least try to reach the coordinates and if it is impossible, camp nearby. Camping would be required in the nearest possible location, wherever that might be. I do admit, this achievement is probably easier to achive in where I live (Finland), because we strictly enforce the freedom to roam and we have a lot of suitable places to camp in. Also, we have pretty comprehensive GSM/3G/3,5G network covering the whole nation, so planning your trip from your campsite (eg. with a laptop) isn't impossible at all. Motor vehicles are, for my point of view, allowed, but it does add awesomeness to it, if you would walk or cycle to your next point. I see that you should bring as much food and water with you as you can, but you could resupply if needed. Eating in a McDonalds or similar isn't allowed. I was just got back home from the Army when I figured this achievement out, please understand me. I hope that a) I used this conversation page correctly and b) someone can make something out of my reply. :) --Peldie 18:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Peldie, yes, you used the page perfectly and I'm delighted to see the creator of the award return (and prove it wasn't me!) I also like your wording about cars being allowed, but not using them "does add awesomeness." I don't think we should put strict limits on where you stay, because some graticules are fully urban and you'd be forced to stay in a hotel or get arrested.
You're adding:
  • Motor vehicles are allowed, but it adds awesomeness if you don't use them.
  • No eating in restaurants: carry your own food; resupply from grocery stores or foraging is permitted.
I'll add those to the "agreed on" if there are no objections. -Robyn 15:38, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

What we seem to have agreed on[edit]

Delete and explain if you don't agree with a point below.

  • You don't have to reach all seven points, just get as close as reasonably possible.
  • All seven geohash attempts need not be in the same graticule.
  • The accommodation rules are not as strict as the Camping Geohash, permitting any accommodation within whatever we decide the scope is.

Ribbon Image[edit]

Endurance Ribbon3.jpg

I thought that this achievement could use a higher quality ribbon image. I made this, what do you think?

* I'm totally in favour of a higher quality ribbon image, which yours is. I like the effect of the tree going outside the border. I made the existing one with a touchpad in MSPaint. My concern is that the "guy at a campsite with a laptop" is lost at the 44 px scale of the ribbon (shown below). Yours looks smaller than the original because you didn't crop the image down to the edge of the picture, but I think even if you did, guy with laptop would still be a scribble at that scale. Can you keep some of the beautiful trees and make laptop guy more visible? -Robyn 02:18, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Endurance Ribbon3.jpgEndurance.PNG

* P.S. Keep this picture to be on the page, but find something more iconic for the ribbon.

Is that better? --Woodveil 04:40, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh, yes! -Robyn 04:58, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
As I upgraded the ribbon I thought, 'I liked the tent being bright red better than brown.' What do you think?

You got it, I also turned the camper around so hes easier to see. I like the look of the new page. --Woodveil 05:33, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

You're right, he is easier to see that way. It improves the composition, too. Now I want this ribbon even more.
BTW if you want to apply your talents to improving another ribbon, MNB Geohash has a terrible one, with a passable concept: weather + terrain + wild animals, but too much detail to see at ribbon level, and substandard drawing skills. -Robyn 05:51, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I like the new icon, good work! I especially like the border-defying trees. If you don't want to do a new MNB ribbon image, I'll do it. --Ilpadre 06:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I look forward to it! -Robyn 06:48, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I just updated the MNB talk page with a new ribbon. Check it out. --Woodveil 02:33, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I am desperate to win this award, but it will be at least 6 months until I have enough leave saved up to take a week off...Bugger. I am now contemplating quitting my job in order to hash more efficiently, is that bad? -- UnwiseOwl 03:30, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's bad. You need to get a job where they send you to the geohash for work. -Robyn 04:29, 25 February 2009 (UTC)