Talk:2012-10-14 51 -0

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Oh, is that still church grounds? I thought it was just another park. And it's neat to see I wasn't the only one who went to this one- small world, huh? -Haberdasher 04:08, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

The 'park' is Turnham Green itself, and as you say, it's not consecrated ground, it's just another park. The church stands on the green, but has no consecrated land around it, just the building itself. Incidentally, the church (Christ Church) was designed by George Gilbert-Scott, a very famous and prolific Victorian British architect. Other buildings he designed include the Midland Grand Hotel at St Pancras station and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office on Whitehall -- both very grand buildings. His grandson, Giles Gilbert-Scott, was responsible for Battersea power station, Liverpool Cathedral, and the iconic old red telephone box. So the church on Turnham Green is in very good company! — Benjw  {talk} 04:32, 16 October 2012 (EDT)
Ooh, neat! I thought it was just the park, but I was unsure since PaintedJaguar took the achievement, and since the church was so close by it's understandable. -Haberdasher 04:37, 16 October 2012 (EDT)
I took the achievement based on the fact that the hashpoint was adjacent to the war memorial (or a shrine in the terms of the achievement page), which I decided was related to the church itself (I think it's unlikely the war memorial would have been put there if it wasn't for the church). But it was the presence of the church, rather than the war memorial, that made me look to see if the holy hash achievement was claimable. So now I'm not sure... --PaintedJaguar 07:58, 16 October 2012 (EDT)
War memorials are often (usually?) situated on village or town greens rather than church grounds -- I can think of several places near me (Cambridge) where this is the case, even though there is at least one church in the village. Cambridge's own war memorial is at the end of Station Road (so that the statue of the soldier can look back at the station as he strides home, hoping that he will see his friends arriving home too). Indeed, probably the most famous war memorial, the Cenotaph, is in the middle of a street. — Benjw  {talk} 08:15, 16 October 2012 (EDT)
I don't claim that every war memorial is related to a church - but some are, and I don't think many people would argue that this one isn't. They're on the same piece of land with no fence/hedge/gate/road/barrier/signs about land ownership between them. Is that really not considered enough? --PaintedJaguar 19:37, 16 October 2012 (EDT)
I don't know if it's not considered enough. I was just answering Haberdasher's question by saying that the green is not a consecrated churchyard. — Benjw  {talk} 02:27, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

I've done a bit more research (i.e. googling) into this, and I've discovered that according to The National Inventory of War Memorials(!), the Turnham Green memorial is related to the Church of England (compared to other random memorials on village greens, which make no mention of any church). So I think this means that this particular memorial would qualify for a holy hash. However, it turns out that one of my own photos (which I was going to upload this afternoon before I got sidetracked...) shows that the memorial has a very clear boundary made of a small (knee-height) hedge and gate, and because the hashpoint wan't inside that boundary, I don't think this hashpoint can use the war memorial to claim a holy hash.

So the question then comes back to whether the green is just a public space or if it's owned by the church. I found some local council minutes (here and here) which say that the Green is actually owned by The Church Comissioners, who are a group of people who manage an investment portfolio set up to make money for the church. This pretty clearly comes under "other church-owned properties" in the wording of the Holy_hash_achievement, so again I don't think it counts.

So the end result of all of that is:

  • I no longer think this hashpoint qualifies for the holy hash achievement
  • I now know far more about how the Church of England is funded than I ever wanted to know
  • I now know far more about the history of Turnham Green than I ever wanted to know
  • I still haven't managed to upload any of my photos from the expedition

--PaintedJaguar 14:26, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

On a different note, picnic achievement for eating a takeaway pizza from a throwaway cardboard box? ;-) --PaintedJaguar 19:37, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

The achievement only specifies food and picnic implements, here being a napkin. If it was meant to be more specific, it should've been phrased more specifically. ;) -Haberdasher 13:12, 17 October 2012 (EDT)