Talk:2011-05-21 52 14

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Who's coming at all? What's up with this? Or: Simply... Meh[edit]

I think it's a bit disappointing that, of all the enthusiasm which has been put into this event, most seems not to have survived to the date.

Most people who voted for Berlin and announced that they probably would attend, haven't even replied recently. Until a few days ago I still hoped that some people would check in rather spontaneously, or just waited for someone else to take initiative for the plannings - but what actually happened was that people just not reported back. There are still 11 people on the list, but I'm getting serious doubts that all of these really will be there on saturday, since some of them haven't shown any activity for quite some time. People who tried to suggest some pre-organization, e.g. find a way how, where and when the location will be decided, found that there were hardly any replies. Do people just accept anything, or don't they even read the discussions?

What has happened with the Berlin locals? The fact that there seemed to be rather many local geohashers actually decided the location, but where are those locals now when the date is approaching?

My own planning went all not as well as expected. I still haven't booked a hostel but I found that this will be more difficult and more expensive than expected. I had expected (or only hoped?) that maybe there will be some expedition on sunday as well, with a smaller group - but people seem to be running off around noon or being not interested. I hadn't expected there would be several more events on the same day which I usually would consider to attend, but there are. I have booked a ticket to Berlin for friday which I can not return, and I have organized everything needed so that I can go and stay as long as I want.

I still want to believe this is going to be a great meetup, and totally worth the trip. Any comments to fuel that belief? --Ekorren 13:36, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

I am definitely going to be in Berlin this weekend, since tickets are already purchased and non-refundable. However I won't have much of a chance for doing anything on Sunday, but I plan to have a full Saturday, either through geohashing, or other Berlin-ey things. You (ekorren) are one of the geohashers who are high on my list of those I would like to meet, so I hope you do choose to make the trip. --aperfectring 13:54, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

Only just seen this page ... /me and LadyBB will definitely be there, let's just make it as awesome as possible and maybe - just maybe - we'll at least make other people jealous in order to make it even more awesome next time :) - Mampfred 15:22, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

Full ack with aperfectring. Looking forward to getting to know (at least) 9 new geohashers + seeing ekorren again. Anyone available for breakfast on Saturday? --Crox 15:34, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

Spectator Comments[edit]

I knew there would be train timetables. Just as you knew Vancouver would have kayaks and/or ferries. -Robyn 20:47, 20 May 2011 (EDT)

Get there early, before the end of the world! It's Rapture day at 22:00 UCT!

We're waiting. You can't ALL have been raptured. -Robyn 03:19, 22 May 2011 (EDT)

Good to see the expedition was a success. Now I can't wait to read the reports. I really would've liked to join you guys and I was already thinking of buying train tickets to Berlin, but all planning (however early the state of planning might have been) where rendered null and void when a friend of mine told me he wants to celebrate his 30th birthday on that day. --Bierhefe 07:53, 22 May 2011 (EDT)

Love the spot-the-differences photo. That should become a tradition. -Robyn 17:43, 22 May 2011 (EDT)

They're both labelled "on the way back" - was it supposed to be a before-and-after or just two photos taken at the same time? -- Rhonda 17:56, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
It was meant to be a "without flash" and a "with flash". They were taken about 30 seconds apart. My 90+ pictures will probably be uploaded sometime tomorrow. --aperfectring 18:02, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you'd found yourselves in the same kind of train on the way back and decided to repose everyone the same way. -Robyn 18:31, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
We were in the same kind of train both times, but weren't clever enough to take the same picture twice on different trains, though that WOULD be very awesome. --aperfectring 18:43, 22 May 2011 (EDT)


as copied and pasted from the 52,13 Expedition planning.


Getting to Berlin. Or the hash. And back, possibly.[edit]

Describe your travel plans here. Maybe someone will try to intercept them spontaneously.


My ticket says that I have to catch a train at 22:58 from Berlin to Hamburg on friday evening, and to reach that, I can take any reasonable local train on a direct route which arrives there in time to just barely miss it and be forced to stay at Berlin instead. This allows me to arrive not earlier than 15:42 and not later than 22:47 at Berlin Hbf, and includes the option to schedule a stopover along the way.

ETA 1942 Hbf

  • Stuttgart-Nürnberg-Hof-Reichenbach-Leipzig-Falkenberg-Berlin


I arrive on Friday night at Tegel around 19:00, and will want to get some food at that point, or shortly after. I fly back out from Tegel at 13:00 on sunday afternoon, so need to be at Tegel by 12:00, and preferably a bit before that.

Mampfred & LadyBB[edit]

Will take the car after work from Wiesbaden on friday night, so we'll probably be too late to meet up on friday. We'll probably prefer to leave the car and use public transport on saturday but can probide car if necessary. Depending on how things go, we might have to head back saturday night already.

Add your own plans[edit]

Where to go (general comments)[edit]

It's been decided that Berlin will depict the general area of the hash to visit, but that does not necessarily mean that the hash to visit will be in the Berlin graticule or even within of Berlin.

Options include:

  • Visit the point in the Berlin graticule, whatever that may be
  • Visit another point in a nearby graticule, which looks nicer or better accessible
  • Do a multihash if a consensus is not achievable
  • Hijack a plane and visit the globalhash
  • Visit some alternative voted location which is not really a geohash.

Comments, preferences, conditions by various participants:

I would generally try to avoid alternate locations and prefer to go further out in case the closer ones are not good. I refuse to go anywhere by car. After about 150 expeditions and never using a car to get to the hash, I would really like to keep that chain going. I consider to bring my own bike, to be able to cover distances from the nearest train station which are too long to walk. --Ekorren 19:36, 9 May 2011 (EDT)

I too would strongly advocate against alternative locations, and also second Ekorren's position about cars. I won't have a bike, so also would prefer against one where that is required, but am not totally against renting one for the day. --aperfectring 01:49, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

Location voting (suggestion)[edit]

This is a suggestion how to vote for a location. Feel free to oppose to the suggestion. This is not an actual voting mechanism which gives a result using some algorithm, but should serve as a base for a consensus decision.

How it is supposed to work:

  • Someone evaluates an actual hashpoint referring to accessibility, reachability, and other comments.
  • Everyone rates the location as one of the following:
  • Prefer - you think this one is the one (you may give that vote to multiple locations)
  • Accept - you think this is a place as good as any, so just... move on, it's good.
  • Do not oppose - you don't think this is where we should go, but if the group decides so, you would still tuck along
  • Veto - You wouldn't want to go there and seriously consider to cancel the trip if the others go here.
I support this voting method. I will take responsibility for tallying votes, and will do so at 22.00 Berlin time. My proposed algorithm for determining locations:
  1. Add up the number of people who Prefer, Accept, or Do Not Oppose for each location.
  2. If there is a clearcut winner at this point, that is the location. If not...
  3. Take the top 5 locations (if there is a tie, all locations in the tie are included), and proceed to the next step.
  4. Assign points values for each of the vote levels (Prefer = 5, Accept = 3, DNO = 1, Veto = -2) and tally up the score.
  5. If there is a winner, that is the location, if there is a tie...
  6. Between the tied locations, pick the winner by the number above, if there is still a tie...
  7. I am just going to pick my favorite, or maybe propose a multihash, if they are close enough together. Sorry, only so much can be made fully democratic on such short of notice...
I also reserve the right to change the location if the algorithm seems to have chosen one which most people are unenthusiastic about. The main goal should be choosing a location that works for the most people, though. --aperfectring 05:13, 19 May 2011 (EDT)

Location evaluation, please help[edit]

Useful links:

Anthill map overview for 2011-05-21, with distances from Berlin main station

Example evaluation entry:

Location: Probably a field outside of Kleinkleckersdorf

Accessibility: Certain risk of inaccessibilty if field is in agricultural use

Train: Großkleckersdorf, 5 km, ticket zone C¹, 50min from Berlin, hourly

Bus: Kleinkleckersdorf Rathaus, 2 km, sporadic, line 666 from Großkleckersdorf station

Suggestion: Take the 12:34 train out to Großkleckersdorf, 13:35 by bus from there to Kleinkleckersdorf, walk out and back


  • Do not oppose (but would prefer something that's not a field) --Someuser

(¹ ticket zones are: AB (that's Berlin), C (that ~10 km ring around Berlin with e.g. Potsdam, Schönefeld and Strausberg), Brandenburg (everything else within of the state), or give the country/state. This is needed to know what to buy in the morning.)

The list below only includes the closest / best accessible graticules, please expand as further suggestions go.

Berlin 52,13[edit]

Location: Looks to be private property near Wildau

Accessibility: It has potential, but could be denied due to trespassing laws.

Train: Wildau Station, about 6km walk/bike from there



Mampfred: DNO

Brandenburg 52,12[edit]

Location: A green field west of Kloster Lehnin

Accessibility: Could be agricultural land, whatever the accessibility is based on that.

Train: Krahne Station, >10km from there, most likely by bike.

Bus: Train to Brandenburg an der Havel and from there by Bus to Grebs, from there ~ 1km @ 9:41, 12:41 and 17;41


Mampfred: Accept with bus @ 9:41

Frankfurt/Oder 52,14[edit]

Location: On the edge (possibly in) wetlands southeast of Kunowice in Poland

Accessibility: Assuming right of access is liberal, no worries on trespassing. Could be in the wetland, though

Train: Kunowice Station, fairly close.



Mampfred: Accept

Neubrandenburg 53,13[edit]

Location: Just off an access road in greenfields between Arendsee and Schonermark.

Accessibility: Based on accessibility of greenfields. Kinda far from the station, either need a bus stop or a bike.

Train: Prenzlau Station, 16km away.



Mampfred: Accept with bus service, but it looks like it's a on-demand service that runs 8-13 on saturdays, i.e. we might not get back ... in that case Veto

Szczecin 53,14[edit]

Location: Southeast of Podjuchy, Poland in forest land.

Accessibility: Assuming right of passage, could be fairly accessible.

Train: Podjuchy Station (~ 3hr ride), about 7km walk/bike from there.



Mampfred: DNO

Dresden 51,13[edit]

Location: In a forest northeast of Lampertswald

Accessibility: Based on the accessibility of the forest. Looks to be quite accessible though.

Train: Lampertswald Station, about 6km walk/bike from there. The trip is about 3 hours long each way by train + hiking time.


Comments: We would need to meet at Berlin Hbf at around 11:00 in order to reach this one by 16:00.

APR: Prefer

Mampfred: DNO

Cottbus 51,14[edit]

Location: In a forest between Klitten and Mucka

Accessibility: Based on the accessibility of the forest. Looks to be quite accessible though.

Train: Klitten Station (~4hr ride), about 5km walk to the end of the road, then maybe 0.5km from there through the woods.


APR: Accept

Mampfred: DNO

Leipzig 51,12[edit]

Location: In a forest or potentially private property east of Brandis

Accessibility: Based on the accessibility of the forest/property. Looks to be quite accessible though.

Train: Either Machem or Altenback stations, under 6km from each of them.



Suggest more graticules if you like[edit]


There are affordable network daypasses for one or five people. Those are often cheaper than using single tickets, even if it's only one ride out and back. The following table is valid for weekends, further restrictions apply on weekdays. All are valid on local trains, metro, bus, and some boat lines, none are valid on fast long distance trains.

Area single ticket daypass for 1 person daypass for up to 5 people comments
"AB", that's basically Berlin itself 2.30 6.30 15.00
"ABC", that's Berlin plus a bit of the surroundings, e.g. Potsdam 3.00 6.80€ 15.50€
Berlin (AB) plus one straight line to some destination which must be outside of the ABC area. varies with distance - n/a - 25% discount with BahnCard
All of Berlin and the state of Brandenburg varies 20.00 see below
All of Berlin and the state of Brandenburg, plus a few places behind the border varies see above 28.00 Brandenburg-Berlin-Ticket, valid e.g. to Szczecin
All of Germany 39.00 Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket, outside of Berlin not valid in most buses etc.

Bike transport is 1.50 (single trip within of Berlin), 3.00 (single trip within of Berlin and Brandenburg), 4.50 (daypass for railways in all of Germany), 6.00 (daypass for Berlin and Brandenburg, including U-Bahn and ferries)

Suggested timeline[edit]

Friday around hash o'clock[edit]

  • 15:29 - zbot summoning ritual
  • 15:30 - announcement of coordinates
  • 15:31 - traditional chorus of boos

Friday evening[edit]

  • Participants arrive at Berlin or resist the urge to leave the city if already there.
  • Discussions about the coordinates will go on in the IRC, on the wiki and by other means of communication including talking in person.
  • Consensus where to go will be reached or not.
  • Destination will be announced
  • Recommendations about how to get there will be issued or not, and possibly ignored.


  • Shall we make a meeting point for people who want to meet already in the evening, to make plans together?
  • When and how will the decision made where to go?

Comments: I am all for having a meeting Friday evening. Someone else will have to suggest location, though, because I know absolutely nothing about Berlin. --aperfectring 01:49, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

DId you guys actually meet? Did you decide on a time to meet saturday morning?!? - Mampfred 18:54, 20 May 2011 (EDT)

I think we should all vote in the following manner:

  • Place votes in a table like this: Hashpoints/locations I am willing/able to go to, from most willing/able to least willing/able | Hashpoints/locations I cannot/refuse to go to
  • I suggest that every person put Berlin and the 8 surrounding graticules at the very least into their lists.
  • Then we attempt to remove all of the locations where people voted cannot/refuse.
    • If we succeed at removing all of cannot/refuse locations, and still have more than one location up for grabs, then I suggest condorcet among the remaining locations to determine the winner.
    • If we cannot accommodate everyone with one location (which I sincerely hope doesn't happen), then I suggest we split up into two (or more if needed) roughly equal sized groups and visit two (or more) different locations, then set a meeting place for all groups/geohashers.

If anyone has a better suggestion, voice it! This is just something I came up with off the top of my head. --aperfectring 01:49, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

Saturday morning[edit]

  • Meeting at Berlin (central station?)
  • Last possibility to place bets what will go terribly wrong on the way (like that the bus timetable at the bus stop says there are no buses at all although the electronic timetable claimed there were. However, such a thing never really happened before, did it?)
  • Setting off


  • When shall we meet?
  • Which tickets to buy (depends on the actual location)


Saturday afternoon[edit]

  • Reaching the point
  • Trying to find out who's missing
  • Find a consensus when to stop waiting for those who won't come
  • Generic activities at the hash
  • Going back to Berlin

One week month later[edit]

  • Still discussing who has to write the report